Miss Manners: Is it rude to be vegan?
I'll admit that I've only read Miss Manners' column a handful of times in my life, so I have no idea if her advice is any good anyways, but I think she really dropped the ball on this one. Her advice? Don't go to the party! Outrageous!
Some people have an aversion to the word vegetarian or vegan for seemingly inexplicable reasons. Perhaps this supervisor is a world-class chef, capable of whipping up five-star vegan dishes fit for an herbivorous queen. Besides this, there really isn't much difference between "vegan food" and "food"! Ever eaten a green salad? Ever munched on chips and salsa, hummus and pita bread or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? Guess what, you were eating vegan food and it wasn't so horrible, now was it? Then again, I wonder if this letter writer is the type of person who would complain about the kosher offerings at a gathering hosted by a Jewish family?
What do you think? Was Miss Manners right? Is the letter writer justified in feeling slighted that the party would be hosted by a vegan couple? Or is it, as I believe, extremely poor etiquette to decline the party invitation on the basis of the hosts' moral or health concerns? If you're not vegetarian, I'm particularly interested in what you think about this.
Comments
I think this letter writer should try some of the vegan’s food before she complains. Or maybe she has already, it really didn’t say.
I can’t believe Miss Manners said to miss the party! I’ve been a vegetarian for over 15 years, and it’s hard having to justify not eating meat to those that do. Since my husband and I are the only Veggies in our family and circle of friends, we have been to countless gatherings where the only thing we could eat is the salad…yeah, it’s not the most ideal, but we don’t expect our hosts to compromise themselves just to accommodate us. If we eat some tofu before hand, what’s the big deal…we’re going to see friends and have a good time…not nit pick everyone’s eating habits! I just don’t understand everyone’s aversion to Vegans and Vegetarians….why are they more freaked out by our diet, when they’re the ones eating dead animals! Ugh!
I am a meat eater.
When I am invited to a vegan or vegetarian event I gladly good with a sense of adventure. However, since this is how I live my life – trying new things and trying to learn – I have become tried of tolerating those who attend events only to bitch and whine because it is not what they are use to. The constant side comments and wringled noses detracts from the adventure and is just unpleasant.
If they can not play nicely, they should not attend.
Good point Katyjane! It would be very fun for me, for example, to attend a party hosted by a Russian couple and serving traditional eastern European foods, since this is something I am not familiar with. It IS a bit of an adventure!
To be fair, this party is not just “a party”, but “the annual company event”. I don’t think it’s necessarily a good idea to risk alienating people by placing a lot of food restrictions on such a party, and I think this is what Miss Manners was responding to.
Here’s part of her answer:
“As you acknowledge, they may serve what they like in their own house. They may also choose the location of a party that they are giving. So if this couple is senior enough to be throwing and sponsoring the annual party, the only polite protest their prospective guests can make is to decline their invitations. If everyone expressed polite regret at being busy the night of the event, perhaps the hosts would understand that it was not working as a show of appreciation.”
That said, I do agree that ideally people should be better sports about trying new food. If it was a Malaysian couple who was throwing a party with food from their culture, would people be complaining so bitterly? I think (hopefully) not.
I have been a vegetarian my whole life and I absolutely dread going to any event or meal where it’s not vegetarian…just eating off the plates and silverware of meateaters makes me cringe – but I suck it up and go – at least eating vegetables is not immoral!
Right. While this one person feels slighted going to a vegan-hosted event, it seems everyone here has been to an event where there was little if anything for the vegetarians to eat. Personally, there have been dozens (if not hundreds!) of times I have not eaten at a party, catered event, wedding, etc. Even worse, in my opinion, is when everyone wonders why I am turning up my nose at a plateful of plain steamed broccoli…
There’s also a conversation about this article going on at the veganrepresent.com forums: http://www.veganrepresent.com/forums/showthread.php?p=235571#post235571
The first thing that came to mind when I read this was how unfortunate it is that in the media vegans are almost always portrayed as “proselytizers,” rude and always trying to convert meat-eaters (or they’re portrayed as just plain crazy, as was the case with Crown Shakur, the poor baby who died because all his vegan parents fed him was soy milk and apple juice). It seems in this case that the vegans in question are probably rude (just as Crown Shakur’s parents may very well have been “crazy”), but they in no way represent vegans in general. With respect to the vegans in this letter, if their co-workers feel they’re being preached to or bullied about veganism, they’ll probably be much less inclined to really think about it and consider it as a viable lifestyle.
If I wanted to host a company party, I would probably serve a bunch of great vegan food and tell people that if they wanted to cook or order a few meat dishes, they could do it, just leave me out of it. While I would much rather not have animal products anywhere near my house, I believe that this approach would make everyone feel welcome, while reducing animal suffering as much as possible (much moreso than if no vegan food was served). I find that if omnis are given a choice, they don’t feel so threatened, don’t get so defensive, and are more likely to try/accept vegan food.
Also, an interesting point brought up in veganrepresent was the snide remark by the letter writer regarding alcohol being served by the vegans. The writer implied that vegans are hypocritical if they drink. There was no effort by the author or Miss Manners to separate veganism for health reasons and veganism for animal welfare reasons.
Sounds like this person was closed minded and just wanted to complain and be nasty. She should have eaten before the party and gone to enjoy the people and conversation. In general people are too concerned about what other people eat. Eat to live don’t live to eat!
I did happen to stumble upon the Vegan article in Miss Manners. I find myself more irked by the wording of the writer who described how (s)he had to eat before going to the vegan party and nibbling on their food to be polite. This is the kind of behavior in which I might engage when humoring a 5 year old into their cute attempt at cooking. I don’t know these vegans, but perhaps they are a bit pushy with their lifestyle. Nevertheless, the reader made the mistake of rejecting the opportunity to experience a fascinating lifestyle–apparently due to their ego.
Yes, a good compromise would have been to invite people to bring a few dishes to share, like a potluck. Of course, as others said, the point of a party is to enjoy the company of friends in a relaxed surrounding, and if this person is going to be so uptight the whole time, well, I wouldn’t want them at my party anyways!
I have an aunt like that, and I’m veggie myself. People dread coming to her house and love coming to mine. I think the difference is that I don’t preach my food choices as superior. *I* don’t eat meat as a way of life, but I don’t actually care what others eat. I make an effort to serve things that most people can relate to, like meatless chili. I honestly think here the issue is much more about the couples’ judgmental attitudes than it is about what, exactly, they eat or serve.
Miss Manners should not have said to miss the party. There is usually a good reason people are vegans or vegetarian. I am a vegan by choice because I simply can not eat meat. I have a terrible gag reflex in the back of my throat that stops me from eating meat. She must be one of the meat eaters who believe that without meat then it isn’t a meal. (not all meat eaters are like this) Maybe meat is all she eats, who knows but she evidently needs to learn to live up to her name—–Manners. Skipping the supervisor’s party strictly because it was vegan was extremely rude.
Her answer is just so wrong on so many different levels! Frankly, most people attend functions because they enjoy the camaraderie and not just for the food. If the hosts were Diabetic, would she be told not to attend because the food might not be anything she would like? I think its time for Miss manners to retire. She certainly missed a great chance to teach some manners to this woman and she really missed her chance to remind the woman that for the most part, it just isnt smart to not show up when your supervisor invites you to a party.
I’m not a vegan or vegetarian, but chose to subscribe to this newsletter to learn more about the lifestyle. I know it’s going to take a lonnnng time to undo my childhood memories of “Eat your meat” and other such healthy chides from my parents who were terribly concerned with my poor health. Because I really want to try to overcome my lifelong habit – or perhaps it is more likely a dependance – on meat I would love to befriend these people and get to look forward to the various delicacies!
I think Miss Manners needs a lesson in manners. I am proud to be Vegan. Anyone who treats you badly because of being Vegan / Vegetarian is the one with bad manners. Tell the so called Miss Manners that it is time to retire.
I don’t eat meat but I don’t have any issue with those that do. My friend loves that I can always find something to eat and my family still laughs at me.
Thus said,Miss Manners was way off base and so way the snitty letter writer…oh goodness, get a life!
I am totally missing Miss Manners’ point here. Is she saying that it’s rude for people who eat a certain way (in this case, vegan) to offer to others who come to their home the same kind of food that they eat in their own home? And if so, why don’t the meat-eaters get labelled as bad-mannered for serving meat in their own homes when vegetarians are going to be eating there?
I’m outraged! I recently had a vegan party for my own 40th, hello? I’m vegan. What am I going to do at my own party? Serve animal body parts so non vegetarians will have “something to eat”? My DJ’s wife felt the need to tell me that they went to some burger place (I blocked it) to gobble a burger as we “only had vegetarian food”! He therefore missed the buffet of green beans, mashed potatoes, chicken fried wheat meat, salad and chocolate cake that I paid $650 of my own money for. Would he have DIED to have missed ONE meal where he didn’t get to chew on a murdered animal? At another family celebration, my cousin “boycotted” the food as there was no meat! Ha! It was an engagement party of two vegetarians who met through the local vegetarian society!! I am disgusted by people’s lack of compassion and their stubborness to look beyond their selfish tastebuds. I shall continue to throw fabulous vegan parties and whether my guests can “fork it” or not is very much their problem! If they love me, they’ll come, eat first (as I often have to) and be more polite than Miss (he hem) Manners, who must find the inside of a slaughterhouse riddled with decorum!
“Miss (he hem) Manners, who must find the inside of a slaughterhouse riddled with decorum!” Hahahahah! Yes, I have a feeling that “Miss Manners” will be getting a few letters from irate readers about this one….
We attended (daughter and I) attended a wedding and reception of a vegan couple. Even the cake was vegan (it was good). The food was borderline. I believe the service that fixed the food was inexperienced. I remember a lot of tofu. Now, it in itself , is OK with me. But these dishes were bland.
And I love veggies. So, that part was good. However, I did not go to “just have food that I liked”, I wanted to honor the couple and the families.
P.S. The food was largely uneaten.
I believe that the polite thing for anyone hosting any kind of party, is to make it comfortable for guests. In this case, it was not done. The couple knew that 99 percent of the family and guests were not enticed by bland food.
I read the same “Miss Manners” and some of the original letter seems to have been left out. The hostess of the party had handed the guest all the ingredients for a “nutloaf” when she arrived and expected the guest to prepare the loaf herself. When the guest declined and said she would just eat salads, etc., the hostess made snide comments about having all this food left over that the vegatarian would not eat. I believe Miss Manners was advising her to not go to that hostess’ house again, not simply to not go to parties in general.
It’s not like the people were giving their own party. They were simply hosting the company’s appreciation dinner at their house. I think it would be rude of them to serve the kind of food that the people they were expresssing appreciation to did not eat. Miss Manners was right on, and does not need to retire.
I am having trouble accessing the exact column, so I don’t knwo the exact wording of the advice, but… I was always taught that if you felt you could not be polite company at a social gathering, you should not attend. A person who is so averse to trying new food should not attend a dinner party. It would be rude to refuse the food that was served.
What Madness! Someone should send Miss Manners an article about how meat eating effects the environment and the book ‘The Way We Eat’ so she can read about Factory Farming.
I find her advice very rude, how many vegetarians/vegans have had to go to parties where everyone is eating meat and there are no options for them.
Besides all that there are plenty of tasty vegan foods!!!
I think many readers were unable to read the original advice, or did not notice that a large portion has been copied into comment #5. Note that, in fact, Miss Manners does not “advise the reader to skip the party.” Rather, she states that “the only polite protest prospective guests may make is to decline the invitation.” That is to say, if you choose to attend, you must accept the terms of the host. As a long time reader of Miss Manners, this is consistent with her advice in all situations. I am quite certain that if the situation were reversed – perhaps if a couple who insisted that meat is essential to iron absorption wanted to host a steak and seafood barbecue – Miss Manners’ advice would remain the same: if this is a party given by the couple, the only way to politely object would be to decline the invitation; if this is a party hosted by the couple but given by the company, objections should be framed as gratitude for the offer but regretful recognition that the venue is inappropriate to the occasion.
I’d like to point out that the poster who left comment 6 is a good example of the type of person I envision as one of the prospective hosts of this party. Who wants to go to a party hosted by someone who believes you are immoral?
I eat meat. I also enjoy many vegetarian and vegan dishes. In fact, my own cooking is almost exclusively vegetarian.
Yet, I think that it would be inappropriate for a company’s annual employee appreciation gathering to be catered only to the tastes of the proselytizing vegans. (I also think it would be inappropriate for a party to which vegans were invited not to offer substantial and tasty options that they could enjoy.)
I think it’s marvelous that so many meat-eaters enjoy experimenting with vegan foods. And I’ve no trouble with attending parties–and enjoying the foods–hosted by my vegan friends. But what I accept and enjoy from my friends in parties they choose to plan and to host is not the same as what I would expect from a company-hosted, company-sponsored party supposedly meant to honor and please _all_ the company employees.
Tell me….if these folks were born again fundamentalists, who thought that homosexuals go to hell and who would not tolerate in their home the presence of a gay employee’s partner….would you feel that Miss Manners’s advice about “go along with them if you accept; decline the invitation if you can’t accept their hosting style” is so unacceptable?
What if the hosting couple were devout Muslims who would segregate their guests so that no women in their home would be in the presence of men to whom they were not related by blood or marriage? Do you still think that all the employees should accept the invitation, regardless of how comfortable they would feel?
I agree with Miss Manners on this one. If you accept the invitation, no snarkiness is allowed. If you can’t go and behave graciously, then decline the invitation.
And I think that any of the situations described above, while acceptable behaviour from hosts planning their own private entertainment, would be wrong and offensive to many employees in a company-sponsored employee appreciation party.
So it seems that the posted link only contains part of the question and response. Can anyone find the piece in it’s entirety online and post the link?
I’m vegan, and every single time there is a get together, dinner or party, I always eat before hand, and I never bitch about it. That said, this person should suck it up! If it’s one meal at one get together, I think this person will survive! Some people think they have to have an animal die for something to be called a meal.
It’s true–some vegetarians and vegans eat bland food. For that matter, some carnivores do too. Sometimes I think they should issue cooking licenses only to those people with functional taste buds. Believe it or not, many vegetarians and vegans are foodies and value flavor, texture, and variety just as much as anybody else does.
You take a chance anytime you chose to accept an invitation to dinner. If you find yourself hungry or disappointed at a party, it seems to me that the considerate thing to do would be to sample the food politely and thank the host/hostess for a lovely evening, avoiding any mention of the disappointing meal. You might discover a new favorite food if you approach it with a sense of adventure. If you don’t like the food, you can always stop at McTasteless on the way home, or raid the fridge once you get there. If you’re hypoglycemic, you can always leave a little early claiming an oncoming migraine. It wouldn’t hurt to keep a granola bar in your purse for emergencies, though, if that’s the case.
If you think you have to gnaw on a hunk of flesh in order to enjoy a party, you’re terribly narrow-minded. If you can’t try something new (barring moral and health issues, of course), you’re embarrassingly immature. Bye the way, real grown ups don’t gag in public over unfamiliar flavors and textures. And let’s face it, if you boycott a social gathering hosted by your superior at work, you’re just plain stupid.
Like many others, I didn’t get a chance to read the actual letters to and from Miss Manners. But I think the discussion is relevant, regardless of the technicalities. When it comes down to it, manners and etiquette are simply a matter of considering others’ feelings as much as you do your own. If we’re thinking of others, we won’t throw corporate parties that cater to the only 2% of our guests and, alternately, we won’t spend our emotional energy taking offense at other people’s lifestyles and plotting to return the imagined offense.
I’m a meat eater, but I rarely eat meat as a matter of preference. This year, however, I chose to give up beef for environmental and humanitarian reasons after reading an article on-line and searching for academic sources to back up the information. I consider myself a flexitarian. Although the word was written “with a sneer” the first time I encountered it, I decided to embrace the positive values it denotes. If I’m served sloppy joes at a friend’s 4th of July party, I’ll politely partake. It’s important to me to remember the time, effort, and thought my host or hostess put in to preparing a special meal or refreshments for me. At the same time, I’d never think poorly of another person for politely declining the main course, simply stating that he or she is a vegetarian or vegan. I understand their moral objections and I admire their resolve. I also sympathize with the disappointment and hunger they constantly encounter at social gatherings and find it ironic that meat eaters make so much noise when the situation is reversed.
I have not yet encountered vegetarians or vegans who have rudely pushed their vegan lifestyle on me. Perhaps it’s all in the attitude–not the attitude of the vegan offering his or her hospitality, but of the guest being offered the food. Just because someone offers you unfamiliar food they believe to be delicious and, of course, compatible with their values, doesn’t mean they’re pushing their lifestyle on you. If you approached the situation with the assumption that this person wishes to SHARE something they value with you, how can you help but appreciate the gesture, if not the cooking?
Recently, my vegetarian friend threw herself a 50th birthday party. She welcomed at least a hundred guests into her lovely home–her family, neighbors, colleagues, and students. She hired a reputable, local Indian restaurant to cater the event and served copious amounts of basmati rice flavored with onions, garlic, and herbs; vegetable “meatball” masala served in a delicious tomato cream sauce with bell pepper, onions, garlic, ginger and aromatic spices (I couldn’t tell it was meatless); Saag Paneer, a spinach dish cooked with homemade cheese, onions, garlic, ginger, cream, and aromatic spices (I must confess, this is the one dish I won’t order for myself when I have an opportunity to patronize the restaurant, but I wouldn’t say it was a chore to clean my plate either); vegetable simosas which are little deep fried pastries stuffed with potatoes, green peas, and spices with two dipping sauces–one sweet and one spicy (though I couldn’t guess the ingredients, they were outrageously delicious); and naan bread (flat bread baked in a tandori oven) to soak up all the wonderful sauces from each of the dishes. I’d never had Indian food before, and I’m so excited to have found a new favorite cuisine! She could have easily served Italian, Mexican, Japanese, or Thai vegetarian food just as successfully, but I’m glad she chose Indian this time. Out of at least a hundred guests, most of whom I knew, I’m going to guess that perhaps ten were vegetarian or vegan. That leaves 90 percent of the guests who were likely meat eaters. I promise you, there were a lot of yummy sounds going on, and even though there was enough food to go around, it still went fast!
This friend’s invitation, by the way, included a postscript: “dinner will be provided, but please feel free to bring anything you would enjoy sharing.” Everyone brought something, and there was not one vegetarian un-friendly offering in sight. There were certainly enough lacto-ovo-free offerings that no vegan would have found a reason to complain. I brought garlic and roasted red pepper hummus and pita chips from the deli because I had a busy day. There ware salsa and tortilla chips, a cheese and cracker platter, tons of fruit and vegetables, a moist, ooey-gooey-uber-chocolaty cake that nobody guessed was made with lentils (provided by a student-friend in the culinary arts program), homemade granola, dried fruit and nuts, marinated olives, creative salads (green, potato, pasta, fruit, couscous, etc.), pastries, a vegi sushi platter, homemade crystallized ginger, all kinds of cookies (including my friend, Esther’s, famous nutrageous vegan cookies), spinach-phylo bites…I could go on and on! There were also liberal amounts of red and white wine as well as beer, mojitos, bottled water, and soda pop (I didn’t understand the parallel drawn between drinking and eating meat, eggs, and dairy–are animal products used in the production of some alcoholic beverages????).
Everyone was considerate of the birthday girl and nobody went away hungry or disappointed. It was apparent that everyone had a WONDERFUL time and nobody seemed in the least bit offended.
If you don’t get it by now (message #31), it must be diversity you object to more than anything else.
To be fair, most of these comments seem to be written by people who did not read Miss Manners’s answer. She did not suggest that if these people were going to be so unreasonable to serve vegan food, the only option was not to attend – she was saying that if the writer of the question was so unwilling to eat the vegan food, that individual shouldn’t attend.
I myself am a vegan, and I don’t disagree that the writer was (probably) a closed-minded jerk, but I idolize Miss Manners.
I think it’s silly NOT to go to a party only because you think you won’t like the food – you might like the people. You might go to give instead of just to get. And there’s probably some thing you could eat. And yes, one can also certainly eat something beforehand.
On the other hand, it’s not a moral imperative to go to a party, either. There is no commandment that says, “Thou shalt not refuse a social invitation.” It’s well to keep the whole issue in perspective.
Maybe Miss Manners was telling this person not to go to the party because someone who gets in a snit about the food isn’t a good guest and she (Miss Manners) was hoping to spare the host.
I’m not vegan but I am vegetarian so please don’t think I’m being discrimatory. Knowing some of Miss Manners’ other advise about party going (though I can’t be certain as I didn’t read this particular collum) I would say that Miss Manners was simply reminding the letter writer that she is not required to go to any party she is not going to enjoy. Rather than feeling afronted and being angry that someone vegan is hosting a party just stay home and stop whining about it kind of thing.